Cheap HiDef Digital Capture?

We are currently filming a low budget DV format drama film, but doing research for future HD project. Problem: Money JVC has a new CMOS chip based HiDef box camera which outputs uncompressed digital HD-SDI video at up to 1920x1080 & 60fps. QUESTION: Assuming we can afford this camera what is the cheapest way to record from it using a PC? I first thought about compressing it on the fly with a MPEG-2 card so that we could use an Ultra 133 based IDE raid system to capture at data rates of about 125 Mb/s (for 24p), but the only one I could find (Orca)sold for $22,000 US. I have found Mac based Kona card for about $4000 but I use PC and it would require expensive Ultra320 HDDs because it captures uncompressed video. Anybody know of a way to use huffyUV codec in a fast 1 or 2 processor system to record 1080/24p in real time?? Anyone got any other ideas? I am aware of the new JVC 1CCD 720p camera (under $4000 US)and may be forced into such a solution, but I would rather have much more resolution and really good color space even if forced to pay 3 times the price. Just can't afford 10 times the price! Thanks, t_2

Moved to the DV forum, which is probably more applicable to answering questions on transfer and editing of DV content than the Analog Capture forum.

Why are you doing it in such a high resolution? What's wrong with good ol' 720x480 for a DVD or something. If you're in low budget stuff now, I don't know why you'd want to jump right into that crazy shit.

He said he was shooting a low-budget drama film in DV. I think he means exactly what he says -- DVD or TV is not the final output medium, the final output medium is 24 fps 35mm film for projection in the theater. There are some low-budget films that are shot and edited on DV like this. I believe the Hollywood film "28 Days Later" was one that was partially shot in progressive DV. The cameras and editing hardware are so inexpensive compared to 35mm film cameras that it's worth it for many low-budget studios to go that route. Obviously, 720x480 doesn't look so hot on the big screen. That's why he wants to go to a Hi-Def camera ... realize the cost savings of still using prosumer equipment to shoot and edit, while being able to deliver something closer to actual shot-on-film 35mm.

Hello t_2, why don't you rent a Camcorder and record to Tape (for example a Sony HDW-900, see ). Then use a Miranda DVC-800 () and record to DV on Set. Make your editing in a "cheap" DV-system like Avid DV or this apple prog... For the Online editing go to a posthouse of your choice. I think this is maybe cheaper than buying some JVC-Camera nobody uses (Sony HDW-F900 is standard!) And how do you want to edit a movie in HD-resolution, online?? You should ask somebody who has done somehing like this before (a producer), if you like write me a message i can give you some name in germany, if this helps you. hanfrunz

I agree with Hanfrunz. Although I don't think HDCAM could be considered standard yet. HDCAM and HDCAM SR are quite different, and believe me, they won't last too many years.The standard is still to come.(sorry if I misunderstood you).

Long-term use wasn't the topic, was it? I'd still do this in some form of high definition and downsample after all the edits are done to reduce artifacts...

Just got an email from JVC rep regarding new camera: "The HD CMOS camera is not a selling product yet. I do not have pricing or availability at this time. I would watch our website for an announcement." No problem, because by the time we finish our current film it will be for sale if not obsolete. Renting is WAY too expensive for us. Ours is a High school not a Hollywood production. Although we are striving for professional quality and hope that our film will be aired on National TV here in Hungary. We have been filming for almost 2 years. We build a set, make the costumes, and then film. But it is not so easy. Although the students, parents, teachers are supportive they are all busy, you have to negotiate with them about everything, and then expect about 2 or 3 minor crisis every time you have a filming session. We often set up for 6 hours, all so that we can film for an hour or two, and the result is 2 scenes for a total of 20 seconds of final-cut time. We bought a Sony PD-150 + anamorphic lens but if I had rented we would have paid for the camera 100x over by now with the end still no where in sight. No, our budget is so low, and our planning so plagued with the unexpected that renting is out. Box cameras are a lot cheaper because all they are is a camera head($$$$), we already have the computer, so all we need is a good lens($$), a raid controler card, a dozen cheap 200 GB ultra133 hard disks and a good MPEG2 capture card($$). MPEG2 is already a very well established format and we should be able to edit with it off line. Correct me if I'm wrong but one 200 G hard disk which sells for just over $100 is almost as expensive as one Sony HD cassette. @Fred Thompson. Interesting thought. Compared to a professional camera the new JVC 720p camera may have a soft lens and 4:1:1 color but if one were to film with it, edit in Huffy and downsize in that same format, then the result would probably be a crisp 4:2:2 picture for a fraction of the cost of a 4:2:2 camera. The color resolution of 4:1:1 stuff is one quarter of the luma res, but if one reduces in a format with full color space such as huffy, then even though the luma res decreases the color resolution should remain the same until you reach the saturation point of that particular color space. For 4:4:4 stuff the saturation point resolution is the same as the luma res, for 4:2:2 stuff it is half the luma res, for 4:1:1 it is one quarter the luma resolution. Here are some numbers: HD (720p) For 4:1:1 luma res = 1080x720, color res = 540x360 For 4:2:2 luma res = 1080x720, color res = 720x540 For 4:4:4 luma res = 1080x720, color res = 1080x720 SD For 4:1:1 luma res = 720x540, color res = 360x270 For 4:2:2 luma res = 720x540, color res = 540x360 For 4:4:4 luma res = 720x540, color res = 720x540 Therefore, after reducing the above HD to SD res in Huffy (4:4:4), the color res would remain what it was, i.e., 540x360, which is the same color resolution as 4:2:2 SD fare. (Of course we are still talking about video shot from a 1CCD camera) What I don't know is if stand alone DVD players play 4:2:2 MPEG2? Does any of this make sense?

Not much:) If you gonna capture in Mpeg2, then you don't need a disk array of 12 disks. If you go PAL, then your color resolution in Mpeg would be 4:2:0 or 4:0:2 (they are the same).You can enhance color planes later with Avisynth. I guess I can't get your point, sorry.

Don't know if the colorspace will really behave as you suggest. I was thinking about artifacts due to compositing/editing. Harsh edges will tend to get softened when you downsize by half.