No video shaking using REMPEG - Video shaking using CCE

It seems every time I try to use CCE (and no matter what settings I try) I get flutter/shaking in the video stream. This of course is noticeable on a set top DVD player and not when using a PC based software player. Now if I use REMPEG and "match source", 720X480, and "gradient" I get excellent quality without shaking or flutter. Of course it takes 6-8 hours to get there. I've read through just about everything on dealing with shaking/flutter in many of the forums. I've tried the suggested settings. Most of the comments I see seem to revolve around PAL. All of the DVD's I work with are Region I. The latest two movies I worked with were "Behind Enemy Lines" and "Mimic 2". DVD2AVI tells me they are 99% FILM. So I looked for forum tips on using CCE in this environment. No matter what I did, the flutter/shaking was there. Changing the upper field first setting didn't help. Selecting or not selecting zigzag didn't help. Selecting or not selecting Progressive didn't help. Selecting or not selecting linear quantization didn't help. I've used all the recommended settings for video, GOP, and Quality only to end up with shaky or fluttery video. My DVD authoring software doesn't declare that my bit rate is too high. I would like to find or hear about consistent settings for CCE that produces non-shaking, non-fluttering quality just so I can reduce the amount of time I spend resizing the video stream. There must be something I don't understand or I'm using the wrong mix of settings during the resizing process. I've read about using pulldown or change, but just don't get why I have to use these extra applications if CCE is so great. Again, I'm working in a non-PAL environment mostly with NTSC video or 99% film as reported by DVD2AVI. Any concise words of wisdom for using CCE will be appreciated. P.S. I've used the "getting the most out of CCE" guide. Those settings still produced shaking and flutter on the two movies I mentioned earlier. Thanks for any constructive help regarding the use of CCE.

This really does sound like a field issue, even though you said you have tried different field orders. Can you give details about your source? Specifically, the AVI thrown into CCE (i.e. AFTER dvd2avi): Resolution? Frame rate? Progressive or Interlaced? Field Order (if interlaced)? Telecined?

I run DVD2AVI leaving the video field operation to none. In the case of the last two movies I tried to resize with CCE, DVD2AVI said they were 99% film and the framerate was 29.97. So I don't do anything out of the ordinary when I create the XXX.d2v. I then use VFAFI to convert it for CCE and bring it in as the AVI created by VFAFI. I've run Bitrateviewer on the first vob file of the movies I want to use CCE on. Bitrateviewer tells me the Frame type is Progressive but the DCT type is Field. It tells me Field Top First is "yes". Quantscale is non-linear and scantype is zigzag. So I enable all of these and run the first pass and second pass as described in "getting the most out of CCE guide". However, I do not do the 10 sec search for a gray background. I just adjust the bitrate for the entire video stream so it gives me the maximum size to remux with the audio. I then use DVDMaestro to build the vobs for burning. Just tonight, I ran bitrateviewer on the first vob for "40days and 40nights". It said the Frame type was progressive, the DCT type was frame, and top field first = yes. Just for grins I ran it against the 2nd vob. This time it says the Frame type was progressive, the DCT type was field, and top field first = no. Ran it again on the 3rd vob and it had the same characteristics as the first vob. All of my sources have been 720X480, 16x9, frametype progressive, dct type field, scantype either zigzag or alternate, top field first = yes, and framerate = 29.97. Pretty confusing scenario, huh?

Uncheck the progressive flag in CCE. That should only be checked upon 24 (23.976) fps input. Also, if you use Avisynth instead of VFAPI you'll notice a speed increase (assuming you're using CCE 2.5, if you're using 2.62+ disregard this ;) )

If DVD2AVI is reporting 99% FILM, you should be selecting "Forced FILM" before creating your d2v. This will cause your source to be 23.976fps, although as the 99% indicates, some portion of the mpeg does not have 3:2 pulldown indicated (possibly the studio trailers at the beginning), as it was telecined prior to being attached to the film. If you don't select "Forced FILM", you'll end up with 3:2 pulldown in your AVI, which you don't want. Ideally, from film, you want to encode at 23.976fps, with 3:2 pulldown set later (when using CCE). You can most definitely have 29.976fps progessive, that's exactly what you'll see if you decode a 23.976 progressive stream and apply the 3:2 pulldown as indicated in the stream (which is what sounds like is happening to you). The rather annoying fact of the matter is that there is NO requirement that the entire stream be fully progressive or interlaced, they can be intermixed. As long as the decoder can figure out how to generate 59.98 fields per second (on NTSC, of course), anything goes. When a standalone dvd player (attached to a standard NTSC interlaced display) plays back progressive, it actually "fakes" fields for each progressive frame. These fields are the correct resolution, but temporaly displaced (one of them will be 1/60 second off). When you preview in dvd2avi, see if the statistics display is switching back and forth from progressive to interlaced (or if it switches at some point in the film). If so, you'll want to encode as interlaced, otherwise: progressive.

I've gotten rid of the shaking/fluttering, but I did it using a process that seems to contradict some of the advice I've been getting. When using DVD2AVI, I DO NOT select "force film" even though DVD2AVI says the video is 99% film. DVD2AVI also says the video is "progressive" throughout the majority of the video. I still process the d2v through VFAFI to get an AVI for CCE 2.50. I get an error message about file type every time I try to use "avisynth" and an *.avs file. Here's where I made some adjustments. For the first pass, I follow the "getting the most out of CCE" guide - except, even though bitrateviewer says it is "top field first", I leave that block unchecked. Next, I only put checkmarks in "progressive", "linear quantscale", and "dvd compliant". Leaving everything else as indicated by the guide, I run the first pass in about 1.5 hours. For the second pass using the multipass option for a single pass, I go into advanced settings using the settings recommended by the guide (except I don't do the 10 sec adjustments). I select an average bitrate that gives me the max size video stream to remux with the audio stream I've selected. I use DVDMaestro to re-author and everything comes out with exceptional quality. I've done this on my last 6 videos with great results. The only thing I can think of that I did differently earlier was putting checkmarks in options that bitrateviewer said were evident in it's analysis of a single vob. Now under the video option, I leave selected the first option (I don't remember the name - I'm at work) and add the "progressive", "linear", and "dvd compliant" options. Don't know if I'm just lucky or what. I went back to one movie that I had gotten flutter/shaking using CCE and tried these settings and got the quality I wanted. Thanks for your help. If I get any weirdness from other movies I process using these settings, I'll let you know.

what constitutes "video shaking"? 

In my experience, there's two types: "Field Topfirst" shaking, where objects moving in the foreground shake dramatically. Don't check it in CCE. Only appears to be a problem with interlaced sources. And "Didn't append '-prog_frames p' to pulldown.exe" shaking, which shakes the entire picture, but it can only really be perceived on a set-top player while zoomed in.

Did over 250 DVD's using the following settings with no shaking or fluttering on region 1's. Used DVD2AVI with forced FILM. CCE settings for first pass. Fieldtop first checked. Progressive, linear and DVD comp checked. Quality set at 5 with no filter. 4x3 or 16x9 depending on film. No audio. Second pass bitrate set for size needed with bitrate range set at 1000-8000. Used pulldown to set frames and DVDMaestro to author. Did all the films mention in the thread. No problems what-so-ever. This done using Windows XP and P4.

Fredrick - Your suggestion seems to provide the most consistent results for me. Thanks for your input. I've been hesitant to use "force film" in DVD2AVI so never tried CCE options compatible with a forced film environment.